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November 09, 2007

Comments

Peggy

Greetings to you...visiting through a mutual friend, Wes! He seemed to think, after visiting my blog, that we might resonate some. I think he's right! We certainly have some of the same blog-friends...and your banner summarizes my life verse!

Blessings....

Jason Nate

Read over Alan's post that you linked, not sure I agree with him. Where is he getting this historical info from? Can I have some sources?

Ryan

Hey JP,
What don't you agree with? I'm curious, especially since you've got some teaching years under your belt.
As far as sources go, try commenting on Alan's blog. He might actually provide some for you.

JP Nate

RT,

Unfortunately I don't have a lot of time to dive further into this as basketball has begun for me, but I tend to agree with Moreland that actions follow belief (one will act on the beliefs of his heart) and interpret Jesus' disdain for the Pharisees as result of the fact that though their actions were solid, inside they were all messed up. One needs to clean up the insides first and the actions will follow.

I wish I had more time to respond...I'll try to comment on Alan's blog, appreciate more discourse on this.

Ryan

JP,
I'm jealous of you coaching bball right now.
To respond... I do see where you're coming from. I totally agree that one's belief system and theology effects one's behavior.

I also fully agree with Hirsch in pointing out the vast difference between Hellenistic and Hebraic ways of learning. And I think he's right in that the West in which we live is far more influenced by the Hellenistic.
The problem for me with guys like Moreland and even Rob Bell for that matter (who I really enjoy), is that at the end of the day it's about reproducing little Christ's, but when the majority of folks walk away from hearing Bell give a great sermon or read Moreland's apologetics all this cognitive stuff remains in their head and their behavior goes relatively unchanged.
My hang up is in the lack of apprenticing and mentoring thats going on. It's far easier to perform a great lecture or produce good books on right thinking than get down and dirty and walk along side an individual through life high's and lows. (And I think I'm preaching to the choir here). Thats the hang up I had with my whole seminary experience. 95% of my seminary work was pure academic. Only one class had us immersed in culture and even that one we were immersed in culture with 20 other seminary students. Things didn't start getting good until I began working at Starbucks and I was one of 2 Christians out of all the baristas.
It was then that I began understanding that most of the language and forms of church I was learning at seminary wouldn't come close to translating to the people I was around every day.

This is an age old debate. And Martin Luther, in his sola fide (faith alone) actually wanted James extracted from the Bible because it says faith without works is dead.

Hirsch's article was relevant to me because in what i'm doing right now, there's lots of people with right belief sitting on their a** and not serving the hurting culture around them.

Did you read the 2 articles in succession? The one on Bell's talk followed by the Hirsch article?

Jason Nate

Looking at it from that perspective, I understand what you are saying. Sometimes we need to get out there and see what God is doing and then catch partner with it. I also agree with the rip on seminary work, mine was more of a professional MA but it still was tilted toward the academics. I know that your goal (and mine as well) isn't just to create pew-sitters, we are looking to multiply radical disciples of Christ. Maybe a paradigm shift is in order.

I've got to read the two articles and then we'll talk.

Another question I battle is the relationship between service and evangelism. I've always felt that there are times when we just need to serve others without always tying it to asking them to give their lives to Christ. But I also realize, that when it comes down to it, that is our ultimate goal, we are seeking to make followers of Christ. This morning we took our Student Council to serve breakfast at the Homeless Shelter and had a great time, I was thinking that our church should do this more, but how do we strike the balance? I don't want to get preachy, but also know our ultimate goal. Thoughts?

Have a blessed Thanksgiving!

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  • "It becomes so clear to me as I grow older that people who change, and keep changing, are the only people who grow up." -Richard Rohr
  • “An individual has not started living until he can rise above the narrow confines of his individualistic concerns to the broader concerns of all humanity.” -Martin Luther King Jr.
  • "Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." -John Wooden
  • "Receptivity without confrontation leads to a bland neutrality that serves nobody. Confrontation without receptivity leads to an oppressive aggression which hurts everybody." - Henri Nouwen
  • "Spirituality is not a formula; it is not a test. It is a relationship. Spirituality is not about competency; it is about intimacy. Spirituality is not about perfection; it is about connection. The way of spirituality begins where we are now in the mess of our lives." -Mike Yaconelli
  • "But that doesn’t mean community is easy. For everything in this world tries to pull us away from community, pushes us to choose ourselves over others, to choose independence over interdependence, to choose great things over small things, to choose going fast alone over going far together." -Shane Claiborne
  • "Nothing that we despise in the other man is entirely absent from ourselves. We must learn to regard people less in the light of what they do or don’t do, and more in light of what they suffer." Dietrich Bonhoeffer
  • "Imagination is more important than knowledge. For while knowledge defines all we currently know and understand, imagination points to all we might yet discover and create." Albert Einstein
  • "Don’t ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive, and go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Howard Thurman
  • "A nation that continues to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death." -Dr. Martin Luther King
  • "Our relationship with each other is the criterion the world uses to judge whether our message is truthful--- Christian community is the final apologetic." -Francis Schaefer
  • "It is not allowable to love the Creation according to the purposes one has for it, any more than it is allowable to love one’s neighbor in order to borrow his tools." Wendell Berry
  • "All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers. Each one owes infinitely more to the human race than the particular country in which he was born." -Francois Fenelon
  • "Ministry cannot be about maintenance, but it is about gathering, about embrace, about welcoming home all sorts of and conditions of people; home is a place for mother tongue, of basic soul food, of old stories told and treasured, of being at ease, known by name, belonging without qualifying for membership." -Walter Brueggemann
  • "Many poets are not poets for the same reason that many religious men are not saints: they never succeed in being themselves. They never get round to being the particular poet or particular monk that they are intended to be by God." "In order to become myself I must cease to be what I always thought I wanted to be." -Thomas Merton
  • "God spoke to Balaam through his ass, and God's been speaking through them ever since. So, if God chooses to speak through you don't think to highly of yourself." -Rich Mullins
  • "We must become holy not because we want to feel holy but because Christ must be able to live his life fully in us." Mother Teresa
  • "I am deeply convinced that the Christian leader of the future is called to be completely irrelevant and to stand in this world with nothing to offer but his or her own vulnerable self." Henri Nouwen

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