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January 08, 2010

Comments

Noelle

I sometimes wish that all of our children weren't "homemade", but that we had adopted some.

As a mom to 6 kids, life is very different for me than my friends with 2-3 kids. Financially, the cost for everyone to play sports or take private lessons is prohibitive. So the kids don't grow up feeling entitled to those things. They have to be really really commited. My kids don't have their own rooms. It's becoming harder with a nearly 14 yo girl in the house. But again, I think there's something about not feeling entitled to your privacy.

Things like making dinner and cleaning up take more hands. Everyone can join in and do something to help. And everyone is expected to do something to help.

My older girls have helped with bathing younger siblings. It's just one of the things we do to take care of each other...even if we don't want to.

We live in a community. Eight people in one house...and yet, my oldest daughter is bringing home her friends after school constantly. They do homework, have snacks, just hang out...one is here for dinner about once a week. I think she likes being with a family.

Mike

Absolutely it needs to be confronted and reconsidered.

Disclaimer: We're one of those families who have faced fertility issues, the end result being that we have no children (of our own. We live in community with children who we "co-parent", but that's another conversation.)

You're right in saying there is no biblical basis for the Cleaver Model. And where Jesus intersects with people who have family obligations, he seems to ignore them.

Being child-free (I used to say "childless", but in a deeply personal conversation with the late theologian Stan Grenz he corrected me and pointed out we were "child-free") I've come to (somewhat) appreciate Paul's words about marriage. In a seemingly radical statement Paul tells us that we should only marry if our sexual urges are going to get us in trouble, otherwise, don't! Extreme? Sure. Worth thinking about? Definitely.

Now to be honest, my wife and I didn't think this way when we married, but our fertility experience has led us to this place. As disciples or followers of Jesus, it seems that our priority should be the Kingdom of God. And like it or not, high-maintenance relationships (like spousal or parental relationships) take most or all of our time and energy. We then try to reframe our Christianity within these limitations, but I'm no longer sure that's what we are called to.

Because of our circumstances my wife and I lead what I call "irresponsible" lives. I spend time in Africa, she pends time in Thailand, and we often do this at the same time. We simply could not live like this if we had children. (Or if we didn't live in community, but there's that other conversation again. Ryan, maybe this conversation has to include the broader subject of community...)

Don't get me wrong - we are FAR from having this thing figured out. Very, very far. And I'm not even sure I'd be thinking this way if we had been able to have children of our own. Heck, I'm pretty sure I would not be thinking this was if we had children of our own. Maybe that's the point.

Looking forward to seeing other responses.

Mak

It is an important consideration and I'm glad to hear that you're challenging the "traditional family values" model invented in politics. Deb Hirsch talked once about the idolotry evangelicals have toward the "nuclear family" and how damaging it has been in our ability to live missionally. I thought she was spot on.

Ryan

Thanks for the comments, Noelle, Mike, & Mak.

Noelle, you guys are actually quite an inspiration on how to involve your children in owning their role and avoiding the entitlement traps. I miss you guys and hope you and Duane are well.

Mak, thanks for the comments and I might have been at that Deb Hirsch talk. Estes Park a few years back for CRM? I've lost Alan's email but was also curious to hear what Deb and Alan would say about it. They're actually the only one's I've heard address this.

Mike, this bit...
"As disciples or followers of Jesus, it seems that our priority should be the Kingdom of God. And like it or not, high-maintenance relationships (like spousal or parental relationships) take most or all of our time and energy. We then try to re-frame our Christianity within these limitations, but I'm no longer sure that's what we are called to. "
... smacks the nail on the head. But only a few weirdo's out there like yourself actually voice it (with clarity). I'd be good to hear you open up the "other" conversation more, since you've been experiencing intentional community. Especially the co-parenting experience... The realistic amount of trust and potential mess involved in that, is immense and so counter-cultural.

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